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Kyle Star's avatar

Interesting post, has some good challenges. I love philosophy man.

I think problem 1 is a good point and requires a defense, probably rooted in moral realism or using the constructivism-esqe argument you talk about later, but I think most of the rest of the post focuses on the *difficulty* of comparing utility instead of countering its correctness.

See, I don’t have to give you a full list of the objectively correct utility rankings to show utilitarian hedonism is right — all I need to do is get you to admit that a sad person suffering, being in debilitating pain, is WORSE than the experience of a happy person being loved and fulfilled.

If you concede that one experience is *worse* than the other, you’ve already conceded the ball game that we can compare states in this way, and that there’s states we prefer and can aim for. The “middle ground” that’s more difficult to compare is just this exact same idea but more difficult, and probably too difficult for a human to judge with our poor brains.

You say we can’t compare two lives by having someone perfectly rational experience both and choose, but your solution is this:

>We can evaluate and rank our own experiences

This is a much, much worse method than the idea of someone rational ranking. You can’t rank any moment except the one you’re in by your own logic! You have never lived in the past, and by what you’ve laid out, you don’t have authority because all you have is the memory — all humans can cling onto is one moment we label the present. Your solution is a flimsier version of the thing you’ve countered in the rest of the post.

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Steffee's avatar

I argue that the utility monster is easy for utilitarianism to sidestep here:

https://ramblingafter.substack.com/p/the-repugnant-conclusion-is-easy

But I agree with everything else!!!

In fact, it makes me want to switch from viewing myself as a utilitarian to something different, though similar/related. The cooperation you talk about at the end sounds like a promising start... cooperativism? Mutualism? Though, like, the idea needs more fleshing out I think. Or more defining.

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